Episode 1. Jumping through time. Transmitting THE DOG DAYS ARE OVER

THE DOG DAYS ARE OVER, by Jan Martens, premiered in 2014. Now, 11 years later, this complex and exhausting choreography has returned to the stage as THE DOG DAYS ARE OVER 2.0.

During the final month of rehearsals before the premiere, we went into the studio to meet the people behind this revival. We hear what it takes to pass on this highly demanding work - from the new cast of dancers, to rehearsal directors who were members of the original cast, to health professionals providing physical support and Jan Martens himself. What is it like to shift from being on-stage as a dancer to off-stage as a transmitter? How do the dancers manage their energy in these final intensive rehearsals? What has been learnt from the time of the creation and first years of touring that can be built on this time? 

Sound featured in the episode: Field recordings by Katharina Smets — Theme music composed by Inne Eysermans.
Voices of: Jan Martens, Steven Michel, Naomi Gibson, Elisha Mercelina, Dan Mussett, Jim Buskens, Stijn Vandenbroucke, Loes Meulemans. 

Interviews: Katharina Smets 

Narration: Tessa Hall

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

You could say that dance is ephemeral, that it's performed in the present and then gone. That the only way to know it is to experience it live. So, how can a live art form like dance survive across time? How can we experience choreographies from the past the same way we can experience paintings in a museum? How would that happen? Especially if the object is movement, not something tangible like stone or canvas. To keep dance alive, it needs to be transmitted from body to body, audience to audience. Choreographies from the past, revived, and performed in the present. This is what we call repertory, and it's a way of keeping dance alive and connecting us to dance heritage. But the practice of doing repertoire isn't always obvious. There are many ways to pass on a work through time and many questions to face. Welcome to Body of Work, a podcast that explores the question of doing dance heritage. This is a podcast by Stuck, House for Dance Image and Sound in the city of Leuven. My name is Tessa Hall, I'm a dancer myself and also a dance heritage researcher. At Stuck, we've been researching the heritage of the contemporary dance scene in Flanders. And with this series, we'll share that with you. To do that, we'll meet all kinds of dance practitioners who've been working in the field of repertory.

SPEAKER_13 2:06

Alright, guys, here we go. Let's try to jump the beginning a little bit to synchronize.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

The Dog Days Are Over by Jan Martis, premiered back in 2014. In 2025, 11 years later, this piece was brought back to the stage. This is The Dog Days Are Over 2.0. We were recording this process during the final month leading up to the world premiere in Lyon and the Dutch premiere in Rotterdam.

SPEAKER_13 2:45

I'm Jan Martens, choreographer of The Dog Days Are Over, a piece I made back in 2014 and which we're now bringing back with a completely new cast. We're now working our second week in the studios of the Ballet Flanders, Opera Ballet Flanderen. And they have been working super hard. And I think today was also the first day we kind of did a run. So I think today they they for the first time had a bit of feeling like okay, this is what it's all about. No, it's very nice to to to yeah to see how this piece still works after 12 years later.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Here in the dance studio, the dog days are over, 2.0 is coming along. But what's it all about?

SPEAKER_13 3:31

A dancer is always learned to not show how difficult or how challenging something is. You know, like in ballet, they smile while they are dying. So I thought I wanted to do something with that, like with uh making something so challenging that it would be impossible to hide that challenge or the difficulty. And um I wanted that to be like a physical challenge but also a mental challenge. And then I thought about jumping and counts, and that started to become a thing, especially after us. I saw dived into the work of Philip Halsmann, the photographer, who's known for his pictures of famous people jumping in the 50s. He made like a lot of covers for Life magazine, and the pictures were inspiring. But there was a quote which was more inspiring, in which he said, like, if you ask a person to jump, the mask falls and the real person appears. I found it an interesting quote. Like later, when I read more interviews with him, we talked, for example, about Marilyn Monroe. The portrait he shot of her is very beautiful, she's smiling, but her fists are clenched to the extreme. And he said, like, yeah, there you also saw the difficulty of always portraying the playful Marilyn Monroe, and later we knew the toll that it took on her, and in the in this picture it becomes visible, he said, and found that quite beautiful to see. And then I made very quickly, you could say the translation in okay, but what does it mean for a dancer who is trained to never show the effort? How could I let the mask fall there? That metaphor that I saw was the art versus entertainment strand, I would call it, because at that time there were massive cuts in uh culture budgets. I think the Liberal Party in Belgium also said at that moment, like, yeah, maybe it can be interesting to make the height of the subsidy depending on how much seats you fill. So there was like this whole conversation going on in the field about okay, art versus entertainment, and we had a very conceptual dance field in Belgium, how to wiggle in between those two extremes. And I think that's always been a challenge for my work. How can it be conceptually challenging? But how can I it also make a big audience enjoy contemporary dance and not give in too much, not make it easy digestible, but like to make a challenge, and on the other hand, never forget like hey, but we want to gain souls for dance. The the parallel that came between was okay, art versus entertainment. What has entertainment been in the past years, in the past decades, in the past centuries? I'm talking 2014, it's also a lot of reality TV, Temptation Island, those things, Robinson. Like there was something going on that somehow it was nice to see people suffer or harm each other. That strange thing which is there, or thinking back about the Roman times that we that people went to see gladiators kill each other. What is this inside us that we go and watch suffering? So, in a sense, that became an important theme. Really trying to make a performance in which one part of the audience would find it funny and and very enjoyable, while another part of the audience would find it cruel, and would almost think like this is this is not possible. Stop. That's the origin story a little bit.

SPEAKER_16 7:00

So I'm Steven Michel, I'm a performer and a maker, and uh co-artistic director at Grip, which is a dance organization based in Antwerp.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Grip is an organization with shared artistic leadership that he and Jan Matis are part of. Steven was one of the original dancers of The Dog Days are over. Now he's passing it on to the new cast. As he says, eleven years later, the dog days are still not over.

SPEAKER_16 7:36

The title also for me contains this. I mean, the dog days are over, they are actually not over, and I think that's why the piece is being revived. I mean, it's maybe a kind of a sad remark, but uh it's the reality also. Now also in Belgium, they have drastic financial cuts, and the dog days are over. This expression, meaning like that an oppressive or difficult period is coming to an end, it is actually not. So the jumpers, the performers are back to fight or to question what are we doing it for.

SPEAKER_03 8:11

Let's set the scene. Jan tells us what we need to know.

SPEAKER_13 8:15

In very short, it's a performance in which eight people jump for more than over an hour. I think it's conceived in such a way that in the beginning we don't shy away from boringness of a lot of repetition. It starts very much as a conceptual performance. You could say, okay, the dancers are on stage, they're stretching when you enter the theater space, they walk to the front, they put their shoes on, they're standing silent, nothing is happening. You see them starting to bounce, they start to jump. The further we go in the performance, the more and more entertainment language comes in. Like if you're 45 minutes in the piece, there was like a kind of French kankan uh line in which they're finger snapping. It was for me also like, okay, how can it almost like invisibly shift from a very conceptual performance in the most yeah, in a language which we perceive very much as entertainment?

SPEAKER_16 9:11

Yan already came with the score. From the beginning we knew we were gonna jump for an hour and ten minutes. We knew we were gonna be a bit machines, I mean fleshy, yeah? Fleshy machines.

SPEAKER_13 9:29

The further in the performance, the more difficult it gets to remain errorless, which was the aim also. That's also sometimes difficult to explain to the new to the new cast, like yeah, but it's yes, it is challenging because it's meant to be challenging. Don't fake mistakes, but I don't mind if there are mistakes on stage because that's when the mask falls, and when we talk about about that, uh yeah, that real human appearing. We're eight people, so and each person is different, so everybody fills it in on a different way without me asking to fill it in in a different way. But me asking to not hide or to not perform those extremes to not hide and to not perform, what comes then out I think it's very interesting and very personal. Do not perform exhaustion, do not perform ecstatic states. If you're in an ecstatic state, yes. If if if that performance brings you in a certain mode because you had a bad day or because you have a very energetic day, then yes, go for it. But don't get into a performative mode to do this piece. It's about being in the moment. I think there is nothing as beautiful as a concentrated dancer. Just busy with where am I in space, where am I in the counts, how am I gonna survive this round? Where are my colleagues?

SPEAKER_12 10:56

Okay, guys, let's go, let's go, let's go.

SPEAKER_16 10:58

First, there is the beginning of the engine. I mean, there is the fuel that we have to create together, so there is this rigidity that where we create lines in space. Takes time, it takes time to build a group. Then there is the engine coming, then there is few pieces that get assembled to the engine in order to create a machine, but I would prefer, I don't know, organism than machine, maybe. Yeah, machine, organism, vehicle. And then there is also when a vehicle is rolling a lot, you need to bring it to the garage. I mean, you have like pieces that get tired. And there was this, it felt also a rebirth or like uh yeah, the machine was back on track.

SPEAKER_13 11:46

So I will count the last five of the 15: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, and 1.

SPEAKER_16 11:55

The score of the piece is crazy. There's no logic, it's numbers. So I do feel that the score controls you. And one, and one, and that there is a shifting point where you do control somehow, or you do have the power on the score, but maybe it's in my head. But there is a power shift in that, and I do feel that with the exhaustion, empathy grows from the audience parts, from intimidation to empathy and to support, but there is a kind of shifting relationship between the two, I think.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

As Steven says, it becomes all about supporting each other inside this fleshy machine.

SPEAKER_16 12:48

This engine, this vehicle, this organism needs any one of them, and I think that's the beauty of it. I don't see any leadership, and I don't see any uh followers except in the moments where you feel that some bodies on stage are getting tired or sick, and that you want to help them by putting more energy next to them. But it's a question of energies. Yeah, to pass energies or supports. So maybe there in this thing we some people have specific roles that are on the moment but not pre-set or something. It changes from performance to performance, it changes because the bodies change. It's a kind of performance also that is never the same, although the structure is super rigid. The inner parts of your body will determine how you will go through the performance of the day.

SPEAKER_11 13:49

11, 12, 13, 14, 15.

SPEAKER_12 13:54

Okay, we're gonna walk through this. Yes. It was a little bit Yes, we skipped the five double. We skipped the five in the diagonal, guys.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

But now a new cast of dancers have become the fleshy machine. Elisha Messalina and Dan Maset are new dancers in the revival.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

My name is Elisha, and I'm working with Chipnow for two and a half years. Now we've started since August to work on taking back the dark days 2.0, which has been really exciting because I feel the work, yes, it's a repertoire work, but it's also a lot about the person and the humanness behind the repertoire. So there's a lot of space, even though it's very square and repetitive, for the person to appear, which I've been really enjoying. Also, we've been uh creating our own material in parts of the piece. So in that sense it's a 2.0, but still in the familiar frame of what the dog days was before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_15 14:58

So my name's Dan, I'm a dancer and choreographer. I worked with Jan now since 2017, and now here I am in the retake of the Dog Days.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

They both remember seeing the dog days are over when they were students.

SPEAKER_15 15:13

So I arrived in Antwerp in 2014 to study here in the conservatory. I think I was couch surfing with a guy, and he had a spare ticket to go and see a show. I had no idea who Jan Martins was, I had no idea about the Dog Days. And then I saw the Dog Days and it blew me away. I remember being totally transfixed, or like hypnotized almost by this super precise and mathematical choreography, and all of the shapes and patterns and formations, and how this was sort of coexisting with this very human, as Elisha said, this very human presence and or or this stripping away of performativity. And so I'd never sort of experienced that in work before. Yeah, and so I think here 11 years later, it's it's a nice moment for me to kind of yeah, have this full circle now doing something that I that brought me into also Belgian dance. I think I wasn't so aware of it before I arrived here.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

My first meeting of Dog Days actually happened in university in Amsterdam. We had this class called dance analysis, and you basically uh watch a lot of iconic works on the timeline of dance and the development, and then our teacher uh showed us that dog days are over. And then I was like, wait, this is crazy. And even through screen, I mean I've never seen it live. I can imagine that's very, very different. You're just totally mesmerized or so impressed by something that appears so simple, but you know how complex and uh how demanding it is for the bodies. It's a very, very, very, I think, iconic work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

One of the great things about bringing back a piece is that it doesn't need to be a copy-paste situation. Not choreographically, but also not in terms of the working process. The original cast learned a lot through trial and error. So now, coming back with this revival, they can improve on things they learnt the first time.

SPEAKER_16 17:32

It's a work that can be compared to an athletic contest or something. Yeah, I don't think we we saw it coming. We didn't know that a specific diet would be better. I mean, of course, we were not eating burgers like 10 minutes before we also, but still we I think we didn't realize that it was such a such a big thing to such a big physical thing to do. I chose my shoes because they looked good, but not because the sauce was maybe better for jumping. It was every day figuring it out.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

In between rehearsals, the dancers are being massaged by the physiotherapists, Stain van den Brucke and Luce Möllermans. What did they learn the first time? And what are they doing now to help the dancers manage their bodies?

SPEAKER_01 18:26

My wife performed in the first dogs, so that's how I'm involved. I think in the beginning there was no nobody had an idea how hard it would be for the dancers. So only from home, from Jan and my wife Laura, we noticed okay, some things need to change along the way. So that's how I got involved in the first time trying to fix some problems, and now we try to uh be more um proactive. So the dancers have less time this time, so but they're really ready for the performance and the rehearsals. The continuous jumping, it's very hard, it's very monotonous for um some parts of the body, especially the belly we had in the past. When you get problems in the intestines, what you had last time, there's nothing you can do really. You can only jump less, and that's difficult. So now we uh made a program for six months. How to build up the jumping.

SPEAKER_17 19:28

My name is Luis, I'm a physiotherapist. I think yeah, nutrition is maybe yeah, one of the most important things for them. When to eat, what to eat. Uh because they're jumping for one hour, maybe more than 60 minutes up until 90 minutes. Um I think the best uh thing to eat is at least three hours before starting. But that's of course hard to do when um in trainings. Uh but for the performance, that's definitely uh the way to go. It's so repetitive, that that's what makes it hard. Very um hard for the calves. It's about jumping and like single-leg jumping, double-legg jumping. If you're not well prepared, then it will be hard when you when you start jumping, uh, because rehearsals are going hard from the beginning. So uh if you're not building up the jumps in front, then it's yeah, it's getting hard.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

And in the meantime, Jim Buskins is up on the massage table.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

I'm getting a very strong massage, which is very nice and very needed, because uh I build up a lot of stress because of all the counting, so I feel my shoulders are quite towards my ears, which uh creates a lot of uh tension. I would be so happy if Luz could also massage my brain, but it's not really possible. Physicality is obviously a challenge, um, but I like to be challenged physically. But for me it's it's really remembering the score.

SPEAKER_08 21:01

725172517251. Let's just scoot up. Alright, then we have 15 to the front. Thinking about what number you hit your cross on.

SPEAKER_04 21:10

It's a challenge, but you're doing it, you're so connected as a group. That it feels like I don't know, the it the the adrenaline rush and the endorphin high that you get after people say it's like uh after running marathons or Iron Man's or whatever they do, whatever they choose to do.

SPEAKER_06 21:26

11, go 12, now 13, 14, now 15.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Naomi Gibson is responsible for passing on the piece.

SPEAKER_06 21:35

2021, 22, 23, 24.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

Yes, my name is Naomi Sophia Gibson, and for this Dog Days Are Over 2.0, I am rehearsal director and project leader. I was in the original cast of The Dog Days Are Over back in 2014.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

And she remembers how challenging it was to perform this piece, but rewarding at the same time. Loved it.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

I loved performing this piece. I love a mental challenge and I love a physical challenge. So this is kind of the perfect combination of those things. But it is, I think that one of the hardest things about touring this piece specifically, because we toured it a lot, uh, was that before every show, you never know how it's going to go. I knew the score, like, you know, like I could do it in my sleep. But you never know, even if you're having an amazing day, you feel great, your body feels fresh, you're awake, you're happy. Sometimes there's just this one muscle that's like, no, not today. And then it would be a lot harder than you expect it to be. But the opposite could also be true. You could be exhausted and think right before you're you go on stage, you could be thinking, like, I don't know if I'm gonna make it, and still pull it out of the bag somehow. I think this level of never knowing what's gonna happen, even though you know exactly what's going to happen step by step, was something that kept the piece like alive for all of us.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Ilse Hekeda, one of the original dancers, once wrote a first-hand reflection on her experience with the dog days are over. She wrote, I imagine the choreography itself as a kind of loving sadist, and us as dancers, as generous, powerful masochists. Through jumping, we bring something beautiful to the audience, but we also get something beautiful back.

SPEAKER_16 23:36

We made a monster, I mean, uh, it's a bit like the Frankenstein, like, we built something that was like, oh my god, like, are we gonna be able to do this? Uh, are we gonna uh yeah, survive in between brackets? But there is a moment where the beast gets tamed because of all of us working together with it and not against it. Anyway, if you go against it, you're done. You cannot you you cannot go against the thing, you have to move with it, you have to embrace it because otherwise it's it's gonna be very difficult. So, yeah, how to go further with the beast or this loving saddest, if I take the words of Ilse. But I have to have a little story. We were performing in Paris. In the piece, there's a moment where we stop jumping for one minute and a half, two minutes. And during this silence, there was someone from the audience shouting, This is torture, bravo to the dancers, but shame to the choreographer. I was shocked a bit with this remark, also because some other people started reacting, oh Messi Pavre, or like some other people, Mezzon, it was a whole thing. I was like, Oh my god, let us rest. It's not finished, and yeah. But but it also brought when we started again, it also brought in us, yeah, this energy, and this uh we wanted to also show them that we were not puppets.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

Bravo pour le dancer, me paper choreographed. That made me laugh. And also at the time I remember thinking, but it's my choice to do this. I'm not being used by the choreographer. I chose to do this, I'm excited to do this, I want to do this, I love doing this. Is it killer? Yeah. But I choose to do it and I love it. It's bold of you to assume that this wasn't my choice, you know.

SPEAKER_16 25:40

Dancers are not only puppets or robots, but they also have brains, and they have been thinking about this. There is a message that is a bit deeper, more than on the surface of what you see.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Apart from that heckler in Paris, the dog days are over, was hugely successful and had an impact on the field. So why not leave it there? Why bring it back 11 years later?

SPEAKER_16 26:08

Nowadays I do think we are living in not so good times regarding money for the arts. It's everywhere. And I do feel the value of retaking this work and to see how the work lives through our troubled times of the now. Why a revival also? Because I hear a lot of uh students when I go to some schools and they say, Oh, I wish I I saw this work because I I heard about it so much. And of course, it's not like I have a go on Netflix, the movie is there. I I do think work deserves to be seen more, and audiences change over time, people change, everybody, everything changes, and I do feel there is a big resonance in how this work generates more reflection and how it can be seen through new audiences or audiences of the now.

SPEAKER_13 27:05

Why is revival? Because it's been, on one hand, a very big pleasure for me to create it. So there is like a very egoistic reason for it that I found the creation of the Dog Diesel Rover a very beautiful and intense experience. I mean, I met a lot of people in this creation which are very close to me still now. There's a lot of people that stuck also in the later pieces and that I collaborate with a lot. We did a lot of restagings with schools, so I think there was also the desire to pass it on to a new generation. So, also quite quickly, when we decided to retake it, we said okay, but let's do it with a complete new cast. Because I think some of the first original cast would still be very eager and happy to do it, but it felt also like it's also with the old materials, then it would become a combination of the old and the new, and it felt like no, it's nice to also see what it means today, what the composition means, if it still can stand, and I think what it will mean today is something to figure out. I mean, I noticed that at this stage of the creation, the suffering of the performer is quite much there, more than than it will be, because now they lose still a lot of energy, their body's not following. That makes me think about observing suffering, which is of course very much happening nowadays, and how action is not taken. So I'm curious how it will reflect on that. Maybe because there is also something in the piece, also in the first, like in the in the first promo text, we also had written like contemporary dance striptease for the upper class, because it's it is also about vanity, there's a lot of skin, there is the sweat. It always was about responsibility of the spectator of do I watch this, what do I feel with this, do I find this pleasant, huh humoristic, do I find this uh cruel and so about suffering? And I'm curious how that will be in in these days.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Now, with the dark days are over 2.0, the piece becomes repertoire. In the past, the standard way to make this shift to repertoire would be for the new dancers to learn the piece as close as possible to how it was originally performed. But for Jan Martis, reviving the piece has also been about rewriting the piece.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

The Dog Days Are Over 2.0 underlines the fact that it's not an exact copy of what it was. The first half, pretty much, of the piece is um was set material that also Yum brought us set. However, the second half of the piece is all the dancers' own material. And because we have now 12 new incredible dancers, it's all new material, it's all theirs. And so that's the modification. That's it's the practical aspect of having their material, them doing it, and the people doing it, because the people doing it really changes the piece. So now we have 12 fresh faces performing it. I'm very excited to see them all do it. Yeah, I think Jan is so about seeing the human behind the performer, behind the human who is the performer, um, and creating this piece as exhausting as he possibly could and as difficult as you possibly could, um, you know, helps this uh mask full and shows the audience who the person really is. And that's we're doing the same now. That's that rule hasn't changed, but it's 12 completely new people, so you will see a completely new piece in a way.

SPEAKER_13 30:43

I was really questioning, like, okay, how important are the movements? Will it be easy to replace some movements by new movements that come from the new dancers? And what will that mean for the dramaturgy of the piece? That was a a very big interest of me. I think the other question is indeed, it is a very challenging piece, where eleven years later a lot has been going on about protecting your borders, about abuse, about and I'm wondering how a younger generation will look at it now. But I think both in the in the first creation, I think there was a lot of care and space, and that is something that we're trying to reinstall now as well, even though that I must say that now we underestimated a little bit the difficulty of restaging and the the the limited time we have, also due to limited budgets, and you need to cut in your process, and what uh pressure does that bring on a creation, especially when it's so challenging physically. So, yeah, these questions come to the foreground. After COVID, it's been a disaster to find budgets to to be able to create with 12 people is taking a lot of investment of the company, and still you feel that's not enough, that actually we need two more weeks, we need more money for physical coaching, kinesiotherapy, those things, but I mean it could be more, it always could be more comfortable because there is an eagerness, there is a super hard work mentality, there is a desire to go there to make it work.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

For Naomi, this revival means a change in role from the inside to the outside.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

I am very, very grateful that I performed this piece as much as I did before taking on this role as rehearsal director because I think um it gives a lot of insight as well when I'm correcting the dancers and when I ask them to do things or I ask them to change or edit things. It's usually because I know what it's like to have to do it. And sometimes I'll write down a correction, write down a note, and then I'll be like, but I I know that point is always really tough. So maybe this note is not applicable right now. It it helps me a lot to have been a performer in this piece that uh that now I can see it from within and from outside. I think it was a conscious choice for Mion to do that, to have the original cast involved. It would be very difficult for me also if I was still dancing it, if someone who had never even tried to do it decided to tell me or told me what to do and corrected me the whole time. I think having done it, you know they're exhausted. We've had a lot of, you know, sit-downs with original casts. Like today, we had even more people come in and give insights or even advice. Someone asked about um their feet falling asleep during the show, which happens a lot. If you tie your laces too tight, for example, you get pins and needles in your feet, sometimes they fall asleep. So everybody was giving their advice on that, and you know, he'll see tomorrow if it works.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

How are Naomi and Steven feeling about their new roles? Is there an element of feeling replaced? Does it feel strange to pass on a dance you had such an intimate relationship with?

SPEAKER_16 34:16

Here is not this question of comparing, which can be really annoying if you are a dancer and coming to replace someone. That's why I don't replacing, I don't really like the term in general, but I think we should find a better term. I would put like a little uh line between replace or something. Yeah, it's not that you take the place of someone, but you you put your own trace within this place of the other, which is now your own.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

While I've been doing this whole creation or recreation, I haven't thought about being replaced once. Whereas before I thought I might feel that. I thought maybe I would have a little bit of, oh, I would still like to dance it and oh now they're doing my role. But while we've been doing it, not at all. I think for me right now, this is gonna sound a bit corny, but it's really, you know, I'm where I'm teaching them the score and it's all very practical, and there's lots of notes about, you know, just cleaning things and stuff like that. But it's I really want to pass on the joy of doing this piece. And I'm starting to hear more and more now that they're learning learning more and more of it and they know most of it, like, oh, that part, oh, it was actually really fun. I remember loving this piece. I mean, I still love this piece, and I love touring this piece, and I love the group um that we toured this piece with. Um, and I want to pass that on, so yeah, replace me, but feel the feelings that I had, which were all very positive. You know, that's what I hope for.

SPEAKER_16 35:55

Because of the sports dimension of the piece, and because the piece is being brought back to life. I mean, it's not that it was dead, but it's dense, so if it's not on stage, it's not visible. It feels more like uh we give the fire the relay, you know, the sports when you run and then you work in team, and then yeah, to to hold the torch or something. With this revival, yeah, I do have this image now. When I saw them now rehearsing, and I'm that I was uh watching because now I'm we'd be we also director on tour. I I do have this image. Like uh we yeah, we are there for the same thing, it's not the same time, it's different generation, but it's holding the same the same ID, the same energy, the same ritual.

SPEAKER_07 36:57

Okay, everyone, just so you know, for today's run, this is important for today's run.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

A month has passed and we're back in the dance studio to follow the rehearsals. Now we are only one week before the premiere in Lyon and two weeks before the Dutch premiere in Rotterdam.

SPEAKER_06 37:17

No let's do it again. 17, you should be facing each other. 18 diagonal, 1920 front. One more time, buddies.

SPEAKER_13 37:25

We are now in the fourth week of the creation. A very fragile moment, I would say, because we're starting to do our first runs. The first fun with the dances, a little bit god at the the realization of what it means physically is there. It's a state in which they are very oversaturated with information still, uh, but having to cope now also with uh with the physical challenges. So, yes, it's uh it's a it's a tricky moment, I would say.

SPEAKER_05 37:54

Alright, here we go again. Uh-oh, one, two, go one, two, three.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

So we are about two weeks to premiere.

SPEAKER_10 38:04

Seven, eight, nine.

SPEAKER_04 38:06

Which is a bit scary, but very exciting. And they have learned, I would say, like 85% of the piece right now. So what's gonna happen now is we're going to for the next few days keep working on this 85%. Uh, we're gonna do a lot of runs, and then next week we're going to finish teaching that last 15%, and then we're just gonna repeat it and do it over and over, make sure everybody's really comfortable in what they're doing, that they feel like they know exactly what they're doing.

SPEAKER_05 38:39

One, two, go, one.

SPEAKER_04 38:41

Jan talks about the difference between taming the beast or having the beast tame you, the beast being the choreography.

SPEAKER_05 38:51

11, go, 12, 30 pause.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

We now want to get them to a point where they feel like they can tame the beast as much as they can, and we will get them there, for sure.

SPEAKER_16 39:01

What I expect to happen until the premiere, I expect a lot of uh different feelings, a cocktail of different emotions with a very large spectrum ranging from deep frustration to deep catharsis. It's gonna be beautiful the moment where we feel comfortable with the structure and the score. I expect the beautiful moment when it starts singing, when you start tuning with the others also, because now everybody is a bit in their heads, because of course there is uh memory, the learning process of the counts, but when you start connecting, then you gain more power somehow. So there will be this moment of like, oh, I yeah, we are together, I'm not alone, or we can support each other when the sense of collectivity will rise.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

So, how are Dan and Elisha feeling at this point in the process?

SPEAKER_02 40:00

I think the most challenging part is gonna be now. I mean, every phase of the process had its challenging part. I think in the first weeks, it was very much the speed of the information that we would get, and then we would continue without all the information really being digested yet. And then there is um it's a very layered work when it comes to spacing and uh counting and direction. It's a lot at the same time. But then I think what the actual challenge will be will be maybe the management of energy. Sometimes you really want to give it your all, but your body is like putting a break on you. Okay, if I give my full everything here, oh, I don't have any energy left now for the next 30 minutes, you know. And I think that's gonna be the real challenge, and also how to be kind within that to your future self, still having to jump the last 30 minutes, you know. Also, I think with the food, I'm very curious how that will go, like planning of meals and what type of food will go well, because sometimes even now in the rehearsals and we haven't been jumping for that long extensive time yet, like maybe the max is thirty minutes. I would get like stomach ache because I ate something that was too heavy in lunch. So there's a lot of things outside of just doing the show that uh ask for very intricate planning, like sleep and training and care and professional care and like yeah, it's it's uh quite a lot. Coming home after rehearsal, sometimes I was so tired that it's really like this sort of loop where it's work and really needing to take the responsibility of like, okay, I cannot really do anything outside of work because I really need to rest if I want to work well tomorrow again. So that has been maybe physically the most challenging part where you demand a lot of your body and your body is granting you that, but then also asking in return to really take the care and responsibility, even though sometimes you maybe mentally have a bit of a different need. So that balance is a bit searching sometimes, and I would say maybe that the mental preparation is as important as the physical in order to get through it and make sure that they stay in conversation with each other.

SPEAKER_15 42:28

We haven't yet done a full run. We do the first run today of the whole piece. Um I'm very sure when I get to the end of that, if I get to the end of that, that will be really rewarding. Like Yeah, there's something also very pleasing about completing a score, having certain very precise counts and spacing to do, and managing to hit them. And when you hit them and you know you're right, and I'm like, this is where I need to be, and it's not a centimetre that way, it's not a centimetre that way, and it's exactly on five, it's not on six, it's like it's a very pleasing. Maybe that's because I'm a Virgo, but me too.

SPEAKER_14 43:13

It's the first one, guys, but it's the first time they will do it in a row without a break.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Enjoy much about completing it, and we get tired, but you also install like the memories of the bodies in space, all the spatial pathways, and then the sweat on the clothes, the eyes that get tired. Maybe you see that it's harder for people to physically manage, but then there is all these moments which we have experienced a bit, I would say, where you feel like your energy is going down, and then all of a sudden it comes back, and it's like such a journey that you actually don't really have the control over, but in a way, you just have to surrender to it.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

While Jan Martis is clearly the author of The Dog Days Are Over, this piece has raised some questions about authorship. These questions are welcomed by the dance organization Clip.

SPEAKER_13 44:29

As Dog Days was so much about executing, it was also needed that there was one author. Even though they created their own movements who have a very personal individual taste, they are created in a very clear, limited frame, which I gave, and then we constructed it. Of course, the authorship of the dancers was really big in the sense that there would be a lot of negotiation of okay, this step can be repeat it nine times, and then it would say like nine is a lot, but seven, yes, and then we would settle on seven. The people who are in the space are always authors. I'm the author, but the iconicness of the piece is also Naomi, is Kimi, is Laura.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

And of course, Stephen Michel too.

SPEAKER_16 45:28

Yes, Grip, we are but it's not only at Grip, it's also in the sector. But yeah, indeed, for the revival of the Dog Days Are Over. Questions were raised by Jan and Clarcher, so Clarche Olemans, who is a business manager at Grip. And we decided also to give auto rights to the performers from the first uh edition of The Dog Days Are Over. And yeah, everybody from the cast really appreciated it. And it is also I think fair. Because at the end, for me, a work belongs to no one and everyone included in the process. I think it's also important for dancers to be recognized. As a dancer, it's not that is you're not just executing, you have a responsibility to towards the the work. I'm not going there on stage and thinking whatever, I'm it's not my piece, uh, it's not my message. No, there is this sense of responsibility, therefore, there is a sense of recognition, or like I carry it also.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

The recognition of the original members reaches another level because now they are the rehearsal directors, they have become responsible for passing on the work to the new dancers.

SPEAKER_13 46:42

Yeah, I think it's very important to have the original cast here because their experience was maybe very different than mine as a maker. It's also very beautiful to hear all the original casts talk about the work the different ways. Some are very analytical, some put a lot of imagination and fantasy in it. Some are more talking about the spirit is the most important, your desire to want to get till the end. Yeah, for me, also very inspiring to hear them talk. On the other side, I do think that it was maybe a bit overwhelming for the newcast to hear all those different perspectives and to hear how it felt for them while not yet feeling yourself how it feels. And yes, also I think uh again for us an instigation to to look deeper on how to how to do that in the future, if we might work again with repertoire or bring in 10 years back dog days or over 3.0. Like, how do you work? What is the time frame? What is the information you give? How much do you keep to discover for the people themselves, the newcast themselves, rather than filling it in or giving too much information? It's indeed a larger thinking about how to bring it back to life, who is involved, who was involved and should be involved again, what can we do better that we didn't do the first time? Yeah, the whole uh reflection part about it, what does it mean today? What is it a a new generation's way of performing it? I don't have the answers yet to this, but I see them. I see them being answered or in the process of answering while I see them perform the work now. All very interesting thoughts, I think, about how to handle repertoire.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

At this point in the process, what it means to be part of the story of this piece becomes more meaningful.

SPEAKER_04 48:41

I feel like it's tooting our own horn a bit to say this, but I think this feels like repertoire because it's kind of an iconic it's became an iconic piece at the time when Jan made it and um when we toured it a lot, say in 2014, early 2014, maybe a few people would know him as a choreographer, but if then after a while I would say, Jan Martens, you know the jumping piece, everybody knew what it was. And it started to become like, ooh, this piece, yeah, they just jump for an hour and say, I mean, it's crazy. They all they do is jump. What do you mean all they do is jump? No, you have to see it, they're just jumping. And so yeah, it became like almost as if rumors are spread about it, you know. Yeah, then he decided to bring it back. So we're we're going for round two.

SPEAKER_03 49:23

What does it mean for Elisha to now be dancing a piece she studied in school? What makes this work iconic to her?

SPEAKER_02 49:33

For me, it has to do with the fact that no matter what time it would be placed in, it would still be relatable or relevant. It can be many different bodies performing it, and as a spectator, you can access the work in a way that of course for different people unlocks different things, but you can entrance it in like a human level. And I feel with this work it's very relatable because you can see the exhaustion, you can see the bodies getting tired, and there is all the space for that. And I feel it's imp very interesting to sometimes bring things back and see how the feedback of the current times uh mirror the work that has been done before. So in that sense, I think it's always interesting when repertoire and the current performer meet and it stays kind of honest in a way where you don't have to aim for something of the best.

SPEAKER_15 50:41

I think it's important in your education as a dancer to put your body in the bodies that of tradition in a way, like to acknowledge these pieces that are are are forming a canon. I think it's also important to question what that canon is and who's making it and who's deciding what dance repertoire is and what should be taught in schools. Uh, I think it should be a lot broader, actually, involving different styles, and I think yeah, this idea of also canon should be criticized and questioned as much as possible.

SPEAKER_03 51:23

Here we are at the Dutch premiere of the Dog Days A Rover 2.0. Just for a bit of context, this revival has been done with 12 dances, but eight are in each show. This system allows them to rotate the touring, manage practicalities, and protect the dancers' bodies. But that means that some people already did the world premiere in Lyon last week, while others did not. So, tonight's Dutch premiere includes some dancers who have already performed and some who were getting out there for the first time.

SPEAKER_13 52:03

Today we are having the Dutch premiere of the Dog is Rover 2.0, which means that we had the world premiere last week in Lyon, met again yesterday. We had a rehearsal, filling the space here in Theatre Rotterdam. Today we just rehearsed, and now they're having their lunch break, and in three hours they are jumping. The premiere was a culmination of a very intense period, I would say. A very good premiere was very happy with the premiere. And then we had three very different shows, all very good, but that's how it is with this piece. You work also with the state of the day, and it was very beautiful to see how they carried each other through it. It was nice to read some articles also about people who saw it ten years ago, who wrote about it again, about the impact back then and the impact now. Yes, lovely, lovely time, but intense.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

And no one was shouting from the audience.

SPEAKER_13 53:00

No, nobody was shouting from the audience. Maybe it's because it's uh it's a known piece now, because it's part of repertoire. As soon as uh something becomes repertoire, there is maybe a less critical eye towards it. I don't know. Interesting question, I think. I'm gonna take a little detour because we're now headlining a performance festival. Feeling curious in in Rotterdam, and I had an interview with NRC who talked about performance and was questioning me a lot about performance and influence of performance in my work, and if I would describe it as a performance work, I said no, for me it's a dance work. For me, it's a matter of opening up the image of what dance can be. And I think similarly, I think it's also opening up what repertoire can be. That repertoire doesn't need to be necessarily old or from a different era. For me, there is a little bit of a an a negative connotation to it, an almost conservative reflex. The old times are better, this feeling. While I think it doesn't necessarily need to be that.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

So, what's going to happen tonight?

SPEAKER_13 54:10

Oh, dangerous question. I hope and wish and think that it will be a good one. And then we're all ready to to start this uh crazy trip of the coming years. There is only so much that we could do in preparing and doing it, but the piece is really coming to life by touring it and and and living those 70 minutes again and again and again, and seeing the freedom and the restriction, and starting to work with that and the different stories that it can uh take that's happening now, I think, after tonight.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

We're backstage with Dan right after the Dutch premiere. He's looking after his post show feet.

SPEAKER_15 55:41

Now I'm just putting one foot in an ice bucket, and I'm gonna put the other one in right now. There we go. It was really good. Yeah, I mean, yesterday we had a super shaky rehearsal. Uh, because four of us uh we did the show last week, so we came from doing four shows in a row. Uh and four of the other ones, it was their premiere. So we were putting the two groups together, and that was very difficult actually, because we're also doing two roles, so we all had to do a different role to the one we did last week. So I was a bit nervous today, but we had a good rehearsal this afternoon, which kind of grounded everyone, and I think that was very important. And now we're going to the show and uh feel the groundedness and the togetherness, and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:26

And now they're ready for the tour.

SPEAKER_15 56:28

Yeah. Bring it on!

SPEAKER_03 56:39

You're listening to Body of Work, a podcast created by Stuck, House for Dance, Image and Sound in the city of Leuven. This series is developed in the frame of Dance Map, a European research project and network funded by the European Union Horizon Europe. The podcast was conceived by Delphine Hestes. Katharina Smetz worked on the edit and the scenario. Tessa Hall, that's me, I did research and narration. The interviews were done by myself, Katarina Smetz, and Delphine Hestes. Theresa van Eerken assisted the audio production. The theme music for the podcast was composed by Ina Essermans, and the mix was done by Ina Essermans and Yves Demet. You heard the voices of Jan Mattis, Steven Michel, Naomi Gibson, Elisha Mersellina, Dan Musset, Jim Buskins, Stein van den Brucke, and Luz Möllemans. Special thanks to Krip and also to Clunk Verbond for using their studio at Passaporter.